Romulator is back for vengeance.

  • #1

    Romulator is back for vengeance.

    So I'm using romulator (live edit 2.2) to tune my Z and have somewhat figured it out. My current issue is that I can't seem to get my A/F close to anything on the fuel maps. If I decrease K (larger injector) the car won't run, but if I increase K (smaller injector) the car will run but with A/F at 10.5 @ 400rpm idle - it's a rough idle. Then it dawned on me that I'm not using stock cams.

    Reasoning tells me that I need to tweak timing first and then adjust fuel. Is this the correct process I need to take? I'm using the stock 88ss.bin from RedZ31 as a base rom and tweaking from that. Also, just so I don't blow my engine sky high, red box in the timing map means retarded timing and green box means advanced, correct? If I'm moving from red to green it means I'm advancing timing, green to red means I'm retarding.

    Before I started messing with tuning, my A/F at idle was around 11.8-12.5 with a 100% stock unopened 86T ECU. A bit rich, but it ran and seemed to have ran damn good. Timing at the distributor set @ 22*.

    This is my first stab at engine tuning and am learning as I go, so tips or the process you use would be greatly appreciated.

    Engine specs:
    Cam: Schneider 270-62H with port matched heads
    Injectors: Stock 260cc (700cc injectors waiting to go in once I figure out the basics)
    Turbo: Stock T3 @ factory settings (Profec B waiting to go in)
    Intercooler: None (Waiting to go in)
    Intake manifold: Stock (Gutted Maxima waiting to go in)
    AFM: Stock
    Wideband: Innovate LC-1

    I'm basically trying to get a nice base tune first and then tweak the base tune as I swap out parts / up the boost.

    ALSO, could someone please confirm that the engine config file I'm using is indeed CORRECT. In Live Edit there isn't an option for a Z31 AFM, but the stock 88ss.bin has the Z32 afm selected. I haven't messed with it, but do I need to manually change this setting or is it pulling the info from the config file or what? I'm not 100% sure on where it's getting the info for the AFM from.

    THANKS FOR THE HELP! I KNOW IT'S A LOT TO READ!

    [initialisation]
    config=VG30ET -2
    cyl=6
    cc=2996
    injectorsize=270 (if I change this to 260, then the program crashes)
    romsize=&h8000
    airflowmeter = 7

    fuelstep=16
    fuelchange=8
    ignstep=10
    ignchange=3
    revtimes=50
    revsize=1
    speedtimes=2

    [address locations]
    fuelhighmap=&h7d00
    fuellowmap=&h7f00
    ignhighmap=&h7c00
    ignlowmap=&h7b00
    kval=&h7f2b
    injnulltime=&h7f88

    fuelrev=&h7b00
    fuelflow=&h7af0
    ignrev=&h7b20
    ignflow=&h7b10

    rev1=&h7fb4
    rev2=&hffff
    rev3=&hffff
    rev4=&hffff

    speed1=&h7fa5
    speed2=&hffff
    speed3=&hffff
    speed4=&hffff

    accelpump=&h7ea0
    accelsize=16

    vqmap=&h7a30
    vqsize=128

    ttpmin=&h7e80
    ttpmax=&h7e90
    aflimit=&h7e70
    My Z31: '86 300zx Turbo. 300rwhp goal.
    My Build Thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…The-Sleeping-Z
  • #2
    What bin file did you start with? Start with a stock tune if you haven't already. Your on a stock AFM and injectors so a stock tune shouldn't be far off for idle at least.
    Originally posted by Andrew84zx
    tell her your car is so fast it will make her panties fly off
    545 RWHP & 540 RWTQ
  • #3
    I copied the bin to my dropbox for everyone to access.
    88SS: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j7m9e5b4n…yIkcmhOemJ6t7a

    That's what I'm using. The ECU had a JWT bin, but I removed that and uploaded the 88ss. I also tried Jason's bin (also in dropbox) with pretty much the same results.
    My Z31: '86 300zx Turbo. 300rwhp goal.
    My Build Thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…The-Sleeping-Z
  • #4
    Okay. So did a bit more reading and believe I may have figured out my problem. O2 Feedback was enabled for a couple of cell regions (Obvious, but not so obvious when you don't know). Kinda makes sense as to why both the 88SS and Jason's 93 tune both acted the same way since they both had O2 feedback enabled. I don't know. Only way to know is to test it out and see what happens.
    My Z31: '86 300zx Turbo. 300rwhp goal.
    My Build Thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…The-Sleeping-Z
  • #5
    You really shouldn't have to adjust K value. Your on stock Fuel, AFM, etc. Start with a stock tune and back out a bit of fuel on the map for your idle. I prefer my idle around 15:1, but anything in the 14's is perfectly acceptable and anything more is just too rich (idle).
    Originally posted by Andrew84zx
    tell her your car is so fast it will make her panties fly off
    545 RWHP & 540 RWTQ
  • #6
    Yeah nothing I do seems to make a difference. I even hooked up the original 86T ecu and it's running a bit rough with it too. I'm starting to think it's because my idle screw broke off a couple of months back and the TB is essentially closed. Having it break off didn't really affect anything with the original ecu at the time, if anything it dropped idle from 900rpm to 700rpm. Guess I'll just hook up my idle controls and see where that gets me. I really don't want to mess with anything under the hood, but I may just have to.

    OR just say F this shii and throw everything on (except injectors) without worrying about tuning.
    My Z31: '86 300zx Turbo. 300rwhp goal.
    My Build Thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…The-Sleeping-Z
  • #7
    What chip are you using? On the EPROM?
    If you are using the larger chip you have to load it into the second part of the chip and not the first.
    Also you have to watch your idle enrichment in the program… They are different from each year and also different from US and Canada.
    Also watch or adjust the null or void time for injector pulse…
    Start with going off your original tune and modify as needed.

    I never had any luck using the old redz files.
  • #8
    It's a 256 chip and the size of the bin I'm using is 32KB. If this was an issue would I have null (0) values for everything?
    Idle enrichment? Not even sure where to locate that lol. I remember reading something about it for NIStune, but I have no idea where to look in Live Edit.
    For void I am using 75, which I acquired from this formula: "75dec / 370cc = X / 555cc, X equates to 112dec or 70hex." taken from redZ31 and was in the settings for the stock bin. I could try lowering the value and see where it gets me. For the most part, though, K and Void is set to what I assume are close to stock settings based on what I've read.


    The car sounds like it's running on 3 cylinders. Violent shakes. Smokes like crazy. It's horrible.
    My Z31: '86 300zx Turbo. 300rwhp goal.
    My Build Thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…The-Sleeping-Z
  • #9
    If you have no idle controls and you're just setting idle at the throttle body the car is going to run lean and a little rough until it warms up almost to full operating temperature. Leave the idle stuff off (or better yet take it off and block it well so you know you haven't got any leaks), put a new screw in the TB and see if you can get a nice smooth idle ~700 once the car's fully warmed up, drive it around the block a few times. If you can't get a good warm idle with nothing but the screw you've got another problem somewhere and you're wasting time tuning.
  • #10
    If using the 256 chip you have to load the bin file in the second part of the chip…from 128-256, you have to tell the romulator to load it there…if not it will not respond to any changes…

    First try that… Also are you using the z32 afm? If not make sure you set the afm to the z31 afm… If you can't do that…take a pen and paper and write down all the z31 afm binary code then manually go into the romulator file and change them to the z31, you should be able to see where the file/tune is in the romulator file to see if the tune was saved in the right location on the chip from there.

    Pretty much should be a lot of 000 and 111 in the first part of the chip then in the second part of the chip your tune should be in there.

    Again I have not had any luck using the RedZ bin files…
    Had good luck using the stock tune and changing that to get the tune right.
  • #11
    Sigh. Bin is loaded in the second part and I am not sure where I'm suppose to look for the Z31 MAF binary. The Rom table says the AFM Map starts at address 7A30. I downloaded a bin that stated it was using a Z32 MAF in the description and compared the values to the bin I'm tuning from to make sure I'm not using Z32 settings, and it seems as though I'm not. I Compared the tune I'm using with other bins claiming to run a Z31 MAF and they all matched what I had. Z31 stuff matched Z31, Z32 stuff did not match Z31.

    Here are the values at address line 07A30:
    Stock 88SS Bin: 00 78 00 9A 00 C7 00 FC 01 3B 01 83 01 D7 02 34
    Z32 MAF Bin: 00 30 00 30 00 30 00 30 00 30 00 30 00 49 00 68

    I have nothing to work off of except for the files on RedZ. I picked up the ecu with a JWT tune already loaded in. I suppose I could load up the JWT tune for shits and giggles just to see what happens but…

    with all of that said, I'm just giving up on this. I've wasted a week just trying to get the thing to work with no real progress being made.
    Throwing in the towel and picking up NIStune instead.

    I appreciate all the help.
    My Z31: '86 300zx Turbo. 300rwhp goal.
    My Build Thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…The-Sleeping-Z
  • #12
    Honestly I feel like I should have taken the romulator info down when NIStune first came out. Its worlds better/easier to deal with.