Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Calcs

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Subframe is being moved into the garage
Jonny Joints x2 have been ordered


I have been basking in ideas for a while now (work whiteboard is littered with them, rather than.... work things ). Will probably make the first go around at inserts out of wood, to check sweep movement, lateral play ect....

I would like to do double threaded inserts LH, and RH thread so I can adjust them on an alignment rack. Just wish the CA arms were longer/straighter/parallel. Its going to be battle.... and I really dont feel like re-making extended portions of the arms.

insert Braveheart speech for motivation

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Above post was a lie… parts have been ordered tonight.

After staring and battling with the rear lower control arms, I am still not convinced there is going to be a straight forward way to attach anything. I would Like to just cut the bushing ends off, weld in a block threaded adapter and call it a day. But the fact that the damn arms arent straight for anything more than an inch is really crushing my dreams. Not to mention the inner support welded to the bushing ends will need to be cut out to make it work. Option 2, start hacking off sections of the rear control arm and replace with DOM tubing for a half OEM/ half tubular ends. This would need to entail some precise bends, and a jig to ensure mounting datums remain the same to keep the camber with in reason/ the same on both sides. I really dont want to make a jig. However I did order some threaded tube ends and some sections of DOM tubing just in case.

Ian and Kye were kind enough to text me some pics of his setup on the s130. Since the end result is making the CA legs longer all he did was cut the bushing ends in half, weld in a threaded insert and called it a day (making it sound easier then it was). Thus giving the back of the bushing ends a surface to weld on, and possibly leaving enough of a straight leg to weld a threaded adapter. All that would be needed is a hell of a clamping device and drilling/milling out a straight hole to weld in the insert. This does not involve a jig and would remain pretty precise throughout the process. I think he was onto something here..............

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Option one sounds very similar to what I had imagined. Only other thing might be to make the adjustments in the subframe itself. In ther words, have an adjustable heim joint coming from the subframe. And the mounting points within the control arms ( opposite to the oem mounting). I have not looked closely enough after coming up with this idea to see if it is indeed feasable.

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Well, now that I think about it even more in depth.... That would end up making the pivot point variable (depending on adjustments), and that may not create desirable suspension geometry. I don't know, I'll have to look at it all again and see what I can come up with.











Edit: I guess the best way for me to describe what maddness is is my head would be this…

To be put simply. The adjustable points would be coming out of the cross-member, and this would allow for an adjustable sweep angle. This, in turn, would allow for adjustment to reduce the amount of toe-in and negative camber during suspension compression. That would also change the roll center.

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

I'm guessing that this is completely asinine, and would not work?

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

It could. Just depends what you do with the sweep angle. If done right it would just remain the same and you are essentially just extending the mounting areas.

It does have a high risk of fucking up the sweep angle and screwing up dynamic suspension geometry. I havent thought too much about it to weigh in.

This and now you are moving the pivot point away from the rear x-member. I am not sure if that joint is heavily weight bearing, but if it is you now have a very high stress point concentration (opposed to distributing it through the entire x-member)

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

From my understanding from reading the E30 suspension stuff, a reduced sweep angle (the angle of the subframe itself) would reduce the amount of toe in and negative camber during suspension compression. This would require extending the outer pivot away from the subframe (or moving the inner pivot closer if it were possible). Then it comes back the your concern of the weight on that particular area. I couldn't imagine that it would have much weight on it, as it is a pivot point. If there were weight, that would greatly reduce the efficiency.

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Not worried about the weight of the car, just lateral forces seen during hard corning, drifting ect....

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

but your car doesn't see hard driving! lolololol

btw, not sure how it happened on my car, but I gained a shitload of toe-out with my heim conversion, not sure how it happened… and now my only option is adjusting the inner ends, which pushes my wheels out far as fuck and creats all sorts of rubbing/poke problems and sucks balls. hopefully when I get it aligned next week it won't need too much adjustment and I won't have to do anymore of a fender pull :/

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Ok, well I'm glad that I understood it properly and wasn't just making crap up in my head

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

the budget option

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

I like your style.

I finally open my Jonny Joint boxes tonight. Reading what the sizes are and holding them are two different things. They are bigger than a baseball and robust as all hell. Had me back to the drawing board again.

I'll be making some progress on it this weekend. You say budget option, however the simplest solutions are most time the best. It would be the cheapest, wouldnt evolve making a fixture or jig. Weld in plates would be cake to fabricate, as well would be the shims. This plus the adjustable stocks should do the trick. It has me thinking I can still win this battle.

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

the only problem i see with that modification G-E posted is the bind on the opposite bushing. It may not be enough of a difference to cause a problem, but with a poly bushing- i know it's tight already when torquing it down to 80+ ftlbs

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Its not going to binding. You are not changing the bushing axis, but the axle axis. After 2k miles I am interested in seeing what my poly bushings look like.

Re: Adjustable Toe and binding Reduction: Stage 2 Measure/Ca

Binding problem is solved with rod-ends anyway .

Making a fixture for this wouldn't be too-too difficult, and would give good peace of mind. Looking forward to what you come up with Adam.

Hopefully I'll be undertaking something similar to this either in the summer or next winter. Whenever I can find a good shop to rent anyway.